Montana or Marino, who'd you want on your fantasty team

[Miller]

interesting DD, love the KSU homer tossed in, if anything it made me laugh.

I applaud you for doing an entire team, would be a great exercise for a rainy day. Plenty to disagree with there, but as I stated, it's all opinion.......defiantly show your age in there being that it's a much more modern team then many would come up with. Not that there is anything wrong with it, just an observation.

 

[Mike]

Troy Aikman? ..... Hell just reheated.

Not a popular choice, because people are addicted to stats, but we could debate it as long as you like

Possibly the most accurate passer of this era, and unlike the Mannings of this world, you could be in his face all day and he would still stand in the pocket and release any pass needed to move the chains, or put the ball in the endzone.

His downfall is that games were often under control halfway through the 2nd quarter, and the ball was handed off for the rest of the game.

 

[Miller]

If I had to pick a top 5, I think I would go with these 5, in no order:
Montana, Favre, Unitas, Marino, Young

Manning will bounce one of them someday, but i don't like listing players who are still in their prime.....I would say still playing, but who knows with Favre...

 

[Mike]

Good discussion, but I think you're reaching to make your point. Surprised that Elway and Brady weren't considered by you...........

Not reaching, because I am not concerned with making the point. Like I said, my top 5 isn't a lock. If I have to stop at 5, that doesn't mean that others aren't right there, so they are being considered. Not sure why you say I don't "consider" others.

Elway is famous for his comebacks. I ask why did you have to "comeback"?

Tom Brady isn't even a consideration by me. I see him as nothing more than a successful system QB.

Why should a QB be penalized for taking care of business in the first half?

Comebacks are overrated and filled with luck. There is a reason that you fell behind in the first place, and if guys are not making hall of fame caliber plays for you in this situation, those comebacks don't happen.

 

[Mike]

I would likely put Steve Young ahead of Joe Montana

 

[Miller]

Troy Aikman isn't even a consideration by me. I see him as nothing more than a successful system QB.

Well said.....:nannie:

 

[Runnik's Hambones]

Well done Miller, lol.

QBs for me, top 5 are: Joe Montaynya! Peyton Manning, Brett Favre, Dan Marino, Warren Moon.

 

[Miller]

by the way, back to Marino vs Montana.....couple stats:

TD/INT ratio:
Montana - 1.96 to 1
Marino - 1.67 to 1

Career QB Rating:
Montana - 92.3
Marino - 86.4

Completion %:
Montana: 63.2%
Marino: 59.4%

Marino threw more and due to this accumulated more numbers.....Montana was much more efficient with his opportunities in accumulating his numbers.

 

[Runnik's Hambones]

That too had to do with the system a bit, Miller. I'm not defending the numbers though, because I like Montana the best personally, as I stated above, however Montana had a better run game than Marino.

 

[Mike]

Threw more because the team situation required it. Better passing percentage because one was slinging the ball downfield, the other was constantly dumping off short passes.

Different offense result in different numbers.

Would Montana complete almost 64% of his passes throwing the ball downfield for his entire career in the Dolphins offense?

 

[Miller]

Montana still had to perform......

 

[Miller]

funny thing about numbers, no matter how you try to explain them.....they are what they are.....

 

[Mike]

funny thing about numbers, no matter how you try to explain them.....they are what they are.....

Yep, they are simply "numbers" and not a clear definition of the player or the situation.

 

[Runnik's Hambones]

36-24-36 and an ugly ass face.

 

[efactor]

I would likely put Steve Young ahead of Joe Montana

I always admired Young because of the added pressure of following Montana and the criticism he took for "not being Joe". He is neck and neck with Ronnie Lott as my favorite Niners.

However, the fact is, he wasn't Joe. The stats were great, the passer rating was among the best ever and his athleticism was unequaled among QBs until Michael Vick showed up. It's the little things however. While Montana had a calming influence, the offense often seemed "rushed and hectic" in pressure situations with Young. Passes weren't in stride where big plays could be made. They still were an excellent team and "94" was magical, but they never had that "invincible" feeling with Young at Qb.

Great QB but a notch below Montana...........

 

[DearbornDolfan]

So, your RB2, all time, would be Darren Sproles? And your TE would be Kellen Winslow? And you'd run a 3-4?

Well, it's a system thing. What do Darren Sproles and Barry Sanders have in common? They're small, shifty runners out of a spread system (Sanders with the Shoot, Sproles out of the Zone Read) and were very successful with it. Honestly if I had my pick of offensive coordinators, I'd probably go with Gus Malzahn and let him run his hyper-speed spread offense, which I think even a team of all-time defensive greats would have trouble with if Marino was running the show and he had his choice of targets.

Why would you question the Kellen Winslow pick? He's easily one of the five greatest TE ever, if not the greatest period. He played in Don Coryell's pass-happy offense, but he was just as easily at home blocking.

And yeah, I'd run a 3-4. Ideally I'd actually run a 3-3-5 Stack, but I'm not sure how that'd work against NFL opposition as a base defense, so it'd be my nickel D. Either way, both defenses rely on a lot of athleticism in the back end of the field while the line works to contain/stuff the run. Honestly I'd go with Dick LeBeau to run it, there hasn't ever been anybody better running a 3-4 and it's kinda hard to ignore a legend like him.

 

[DearbornDolfan]

Would Montana complete almost 64% of his passes throwing the ball downfield for his entire career in the Dolphins offense?

Something you guys are kinda forgetting. Shula was a genius offensive mind that in the 70s had a two-headed attack before it became fashionable 30 years later. His offense was whatever he had, so when he had Marino he passed it a lot. If he'd had Montana, the offense would have been just as pass happy but the routes would've not been as vertical.

 

[efactor]

Elway is famous for his comebacks. I ask why did you have to "comeback"?

Tom Brady isn't even a consideration by me. I see him as nothing more than a successful system QB.

Actually, we are in agreement on Elway as well. I threw him out because he is universally mentioned in these conversations. I think the fact that he had such a great arm hampered his development as a QB early in his career. Always seems to be trying to throw the ball through a wall. That said, still a guy to be considered.

As far as Brady goes, I go along with Miller's thinking. Finish his body of work because he evolved as a QB into more than a "system QB" in 2007. Prior to that, he had decent stats and did what was necessary to win, and frankly, his receivers were below average. Troy Brown, Deon Branch, David Givens. To accomplish what he did with that crew was pretty impressive. Then in 07, they bring in a great receiver and a perfect complimentry possession receiver and the guy immediately sets the TD record. IMO, hard to call him a systems QB at this point..........

 

[DearbornDolfan]

interesting DD, love the KSU homer tossed in, if anything it made me laugh.

You're a bit quick to dismiss the pick of Sproles as "homer". You just admitted you only gave the players a quick glance and didn't think overmuch about my objective in picking the players I did. Note I never even suggested an FB.

I applaud you for doing an entire team, would be a great exercise for a rainy day. Plenty to disagree with there, but as I stated, it's all opinion.......defiantly show your age in there being that it's a much more modern team then many would come up with. Not that there is anything wrong with it, just an observation.

There are quite a few players there that were retired before I was born or were in their prime before I hit my teenage years. Trust me, there IS a method to my madness and it has nothing at all to do with my age or any other nonsense.

If I were going strictly for all-time greats already in the hall, I just would've compiled a list. Instead I selected my center piece (Marino), though about what kind of offense I'd like to run with him (obviously some manner of spread that would play to his strengths). Then when I thought about defense I decided to go with a scheme that had the most visibly and distinctively great defenses to its credit.

 

[Phicinfan]

I don't defend Dearborn Dolfan too much when he defends his Dolphins, but in this case I have to make an exception.

I think Joe Montana was a really good quarterback. I don't think I have room for him in any "top 5" though, and I would have to put Dan Marino in there.

I think you could put Dan Marino on those 49'ers teams and he would have some of those elusive titles. I don't think the same could be said if you put Montana in a Dolphins uniform.

I think Marino could have excelled in just about any offensive system. I don't thin Montana could do that.

One player doesn't win a ring in football, and I think quarterbacks get far too much credit and blame in this regard.

This wasn't really the topic of the thread, but I avoided this discussion as long as I could

:nod: Word!