DearbornDolfan
Active Member
Good. I'm always happy to take a free win.
"Joe Montana was a product of a system, Dan Marino WAS a system." -Bill Wals
Montana or Marino, who'd you want on your fantasty team
- Thread starter mudloggerone
- Start date
Good. I'm always happy to take a free win.
"Joe Montana was a product of a system, Dan Marino WAS a system." -Bill Wals
:biglaugh:
You have a pretty bad memory....
Super Bowl XIX - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
We've already seen how that plays out....
cue the excuses......
Man I must be getting some of that old timers, I'd plum forgotten about their match up in Dan's second year. A really big year BTW. Thanks for the link.
efactor
Coming at you
Marino broke the passing records because he was passing all the time. Despite the perception, SF always had a balanced offense. Montana would have had monster stats had they thrown all the time like Miami.
As far as the rings go, I'm calling BS on the tables turned statement. The first title SF won in 81 was all Montana. Their best RB was Ricky Patton, their WRs were OK, but nothing special. That offense worked because Montana threw hand seeking lazers that allowed the receivers to be in full stride when they caught the ball and make big plays. Look at the "play" that got them to the super bowl. Simply amazing, not only in the throw, but the calmness to let the play develop when being chased down by a 6'9" maniac.
Marino did have a stronger arm and a quicker release, but he was not a better QB overall. Walsh was just being complimentry. Joe was his guy..............
efactor
Coming at you
Thanks Miller. I especially like the point where they talk about the "great" trio of RBs that Miami had. Nathan and Bennett both had over a 1000 combined yards and the third guy almost 500. Kind of dispells the "crappy RB" arguement..............
Runnik's Hambones
Active Member
The question though was fantasy wise. I would take Montana over Marino for the sake of pure football. But for fantasy, it would be Marino hands down.
DearbornDolfan
Active Member
The Dolphins lost that game because they couldn't run the ball. It's as simple as that.
And you took my comment out of context. I meant if we did an all-time draft and our two teams met, mine would crush yours so hard it wouldn't be funny. I won't tell you who my running back would be, but I'm sure you can guess.
Mike
Administrator
I don't defend Dearborn Dolfan too much when he defends his Dolphins, but in this case I have to make an exception.
I think Joe Montana was a really good quarterback. I don't think I have room for him in any "top 5" though, and I would have to put Dan Marino in there.
I think you could put Dan Marino on those 49'ers teams and he would have some of those elusive titles. I don't think the same could be said if you put Montana in a Dolphins uniform.
I think Marino could have excelled in just about any offensive system. I don't thin Montana could do that.
One player doesn't win a ring in football, and I think quarterbacks get far too much credit and blame in this regard.
This wasn't really the topic of the thread, but I avoided this discussion as long as I could
I think Joe Montana was a really good quarterback. I don't think I have room for him in any "top 5" though, and I would have to put Dan Marino in there.
I think you could put Dan Marino on those 49'ers teams and he would have some of those elusive titles. I don't think the same could be said if you put Montana in a Dolphins uniform.
I think Marino could have excelled in just about any offensive system. I don't thin Montana could do that.
One player doesn't win a ring in football, and I think quarterbacks get far too much credit and blame in this regard.
This wasn't really the topic of the thread, but I avoided this discussion as long as I could
Runnik's Hambones
Active Member
I don't defend Dearborn Dolfan too much when he defends his Dolphins, but in this case I have to make an exception.
I think Joe Montana was a really good quarterback. I don't think I have room for him in any "top 5" though, and I would have to put Dan Marino in there.
I think you could put Dan Marino on those 49'ers teams and he would have some of those elusive titles. I don't think the same could be said if you put Montana in a Dolphins uniform.
I think Marino could have excelled in just about any offensive system. I don't thin Montana could do that.
One player doesn't win a ring in football, and I think quarterbacks get far too much credit and blame in this regard.
This wasn't really the topic of the thread, but I avoided this discussion as long as I could
Hell has just frozen over...
efactor
Coming at you
Then you're only considering arm strength when evaluating QBs...........
Montana made all the throws and there was a reason that SF receivers were running wild after the catch. They constantly caught the ball in stride. He knew when to thread the needle and when to use touch. The throw that won the SB in 88 was vintage Montana. Under pressure, a bullet that was right on the hands of John Taylor.
-4 Super Bowl Championships
-Took the Chiefs to the AFC title game in his 2 year stint there
-Led Norte Dame to a National Championship as well as led one of the greatest comebacks ever (while sick) in the Cotton Bowl.
He was a quiet leader who had a calming influence on the entire offense. He was mobile (the catch) and could win games with his feet (59 yards rushing and a TD in the win against Marino's Dolphins). He led SF to their first championship with a very limited offensive team behind him. Won three more and was within an eyelash (bad call and Roger Craig last minute fumble) of winning two more.
Rating players is personal choice and a lot of factors go into it, but to say Montana is not in the top 5 is a huge reach, similar to saying that Walter Payton isn't a top 5 running back or that Jerry Rice isn't a top 5 receiver. Opinion, but a minority one..........
Mike
Administrator
No, I'm not. Arm strength is only one factor.
I consider him one the top QB's ever in the NFL, just don't know I would consider him top 5. It's not like I am saying he sucks or something.
efactor
Coming at you
OK. I am curious however who would keep Montana out of your top 5. Marino, Elway, Unitas, Favre would seem to be the logical choices, but that's only 4. I guess you can go back to Baugh, Luckman and Otto Graham but hard to compare era's and players we never saw play..........
Again, just curious............
yours would be simple, it would be the all dolphin team...pretty simple to line up against that!
Look, I have nothing against Marino....grat QB, I just put him behind another great QB in Montana....you want to take exception to that Mr. Homer, go ahead, just an opinion and in truth no one is right or wrong, it's all opinion....
Mike
Administrator
A top 5 is hard to do. Ranking "all time" players is damn near impossible because you have to factor in the situation they were in, and see how they would compare in other situations.
Pin me to a top 5, let see what I can come up with. (Montana might end up here, because I am doing this, let's see). I will try to keep it to a more modern era, which is really unfair to many quarterbacks.
In no particular order
- Dan Marino
- Troy Aikman
I have to give some explanation here, because the homer accusations will surely come flying.
Aikman had the ability to throw for 400 yards a game. He regularly hit close to 200/game by the first have constantly, and is one of the most accurate passers in the moder era. He did what was best for the offense. If that meant throwing it, he threw it. If that meant handing it off 35 times, he did that with no selfishness. - Brett Favre
- Peyton Manning
- Johnny Unitas
With Johnny Unitas, I can only assume how good he would be in this era. The guy was dragged off a sand lot and dominated football.
I can't sit here and tell you that Montana doesn't belong in this list. I just don't think it is a lock.
Runnik's Hambones
Active Member
Troy Aikman? ..... Hell just reheated.
DearbornDolfan
Active Member
Actually, it wouldn't be so at all. My running back wouldn't be a Fin, none of my receivers would be, I might have a Fin or two on the line (plenty of HOF players there), but not too many. Actually, this would be my ideal team:
***
QB1: Dan Marino
QB2: Warren Moon
RB1: Barry Sanders
RB2: Darren Sproles
WR1: Jerry Rice
WR2: Randy Moss
WR3: Calvin Johnson
WR4: Andre Johnson
WR5: Anquan Boldin
TE1: Kellen Winslow
TE2: Shannon Sharpe
LT: Anthony Munoz
LG: Larry Little
C: Dwight Stephenson
RG: Bob Kuechenberg
RT: Richmond Webb
LDE: Reggie White
NT: William Perry
RDE: Julius Peppers
LOLB: Jason Taylor
MLB: Ray Lewis
MLB: Mike Singletary
ROLB: Lawrence Taylor
CB1: Deion Sanders
FS: Jake Scott
SS: Ronnie Lott
CB2: Nmandi Asomugha
***
Six Dolphins on that entire team, four of them Hall of Famers and two of them have a good shot at being in Canton some day (Jake Scott was a Super Bowl MVP, one of the rare defensive players to receive the honor).
Runnik's Hambones
Active Member
So, your RB2, all time, would be Darren Sproles? And your TE would be Kellen Winslow? And you'd run a 3-4?
efactor
Coming at you
-No need to justify the Aikman consideration. I have made similar points in different debates about the best QB ever. However, the fact that he didn't have to do it in the clutch that often still leaves him out of Montana's class.
-Although I never saw Unitas play until the very end of his career, from the films and from what I read, he is the guy I view as closest to Montana as a pure QB. Great stats, won championships. Didn't have the mobility that Montana had, which would give Joe the overall edge.
-Marino. Great passer, great stats but not the overall QB Montana was. To be among the greatest, you should have been able to put your team over the edge just one time. Not like his teams sucked and he played his entire career under great coaches. Montana did it in "81" with a team less talented than a lot of Marino's.
-Favre. No chance in hell. Most overrated QB ever in these conversations. Won one ring. Joe would have had several at the helm of those Packer teams. Made too many mistakes.
-Manning. Great technition, but again, doesn't have the mobility or the greatness under pressure that Joe had.
Good discussion, but I think you're reaching to make your point. Surprised that Elway and Brady weren't considered by you...........