PPR rankings

[comegetDATnguyen]

Just received an e-mail that the PPR rankings have been updated but they seem a bit off.

RB - Mendenhall, Greene, Benson, Wells all seem a bit high...none of these RBs catch passes

Best - I think he should be ranked higher than these RBs since he'll catch a ton of passes

Foster - ranked 39th...way too low IMO. Ranked below guys like Jacobs, M. Bush, Cadillac, Ricky Williams, Maroney, Thomas Jones. I think he has a lot more value than these guys.

Hightower - ranked too low

WR - Desean Jackson seems way too high in a PPR league. He doesn't catch many passes and his value lies in long TD catches

Knox seems a little low, he should be a top 30 PPR option. Should definitely be ranked over Sidney Rice and VJAX

Anyone agree? Trying to update my sheets accordingly

 

[German CTL]

Yeah I agree with some of what you said... I have Foster and Knox ranked alot higher. Greene might be a little high with a healthy LT in town and I have Wells and DJax ranked slightly lower as well.

I got no problem ranking Mendenhall that high in a ppr league, he caught 25 balls last year... he should be good for 35+ this year IMO.

 

[Miller]

well here is my reasoning. Overall, dropping RB's for not catching passes vs catching passes IMO, is over-rated and over exaggerated in many rankings. If your RB can ball, they can ball.

For example, you are high on Best....an unproven rookie who you have no idea how he will hold up to an NFL pounding. He did not stay healthy in college.....can he in the NFL??? I'm not sold, just not buying the hype.

Benson, has been more involved in the passing game in the preseason. He's not a 40 catch back, but if he can get to 30, with the 300+ carries I expect him to get he's a good bargain. Don;t outthink the room. 15 receptions more is only 15 pts....if the non receiveing back still has more overall yds and TD than the alternative, you still will get more pts!

Foster - man, the hype machine is full force, everyone loves him.....I'll pass, won't be the main back all year IMO. Don't sleep on Slaton in ppr leagues. At the end of the nyear, I think Slaton ends up with more pts.

Hightower - See more of a workload for Wells and no where near his 63 receptions. May be a little low, but don't see much upside there.

WR's: Sleep on DJax all you want....just don't cry and say I didn't warn you at the end of the season. His recpetion will see a sizable difference with Kolb's pin point accuracy.

Knox....starting to look like the 3rd option on Chicago. Not getting real excited. Will have a couple big games, but nothing consistent.

VJax & Rice.....home run picks.....gots to have some balls, but could pay dividends later in the year. At that point I would rather take a homerun than mediocre...personal preference.

Good luck, thanks for taking a look.

 

[Miller]

rank by pts per game at RB in 2009. First # is ppr, 2nd is non-ppr.

Benson - 15------->12 - 3
Mendy - 24------>17 - 7
Wells - 37------>31 - 6
Greene - 66----->57 - 9


So, last year all of the 4 player you pointed out took a decrease due to the ppr scoring....but the average was 6 spots. The RB who was in the 20's on both was only 3 spots. IMO, the higher you are in the ranking the less impact it will have, hence why I don't drop Benson, Greene and Mendy like a rock.

RW only caught 35 passes...yet he was #6 in ppr
T Jones only caugh 10....he was still #9!
Grant - 25 rec and #10.
JStew - 18 rec - #15
Mendy - 25 rec - #16
Dwill - 29 rec - #17
Benson - 17 rec - #20

RB's in the top 20 in ppr last year with under 35 receptions....

Again, receptions in a ppr league for RB's are important but they are not the ONLY thing. Don't out think the room.

 

[cctekguy]

Nice work Miller!

 

[German CTL]

Still ain't buying Miller...good luck betting against me...LOL.

 

[storminn0rm]

Good explanation Miller

 

[comegetDATnguyen]

Not bad, still don't agree with some of the things you say.

Good argument with Best. While he was hurt in college, he has great upside and if healthy, I think he outproduces some of those guys you have mentioned. He's get a full workload and is an excellent receiver out of the backfield. Very explosive runner as well.

No way Slaton outproduces Foster, I'd bet the house on that. Slaton has been demoted to kick off duties and he's not even playing right now, he's in a boot. He's not even a viable handcuff to Foster. The hype is justified because Foster keeps producing and he looks explosive. A running back with a full workload in a high powered offense? He'll be a rock solid RB2 all year. Texans' beat writer expects 1100-1200 rushing yards and a chance to eclipse 10+ TDs. The only reason why the "hype" is out of control is that he has no more value anymore. A month ago, you could have drafted this guy after the 8th round. Now he's going as early as the 3rd-4th. No more value but the rise in ADP is justified. But still, to rank guys like Cadillac, Reggie Bush, Ricky Williams, Spiller (Plays for a terrible Bills offense and will fight FJAX for carries), M. Bush, Leon Washington, Maroney, Slaton and Thomas Jones (Charles is the man in KC) is a bit much. Looks like you're down on Foster and for no reason. Slaton looks slow, STILL fumbled in preseason and looks nowhere near the back he was a couple years ago. Would like to hear more about that...

DJAX - not sold on Kolb, he's looked pretty awful thus far. I still think Maclin outproduces DJAX this year. DJAX value lies in those deep TD passes and Kolb doesn't have the arm strength or deep accuracy that McNabb had. He still should be productive but certainly not a top 5 season. He'll be lucky to catch 75 balls...not that great in a PPR scoring system. I think Celek gets a big spike in value, he's Kolb's BFF.

Knox - I guess I'm high on him than others but I'm not sure how you can call him the 3rd option. He is clearly Cutler's favorite WR because he has the most targets this preseason than all the other Bears's WRs. He got 8 targets alone in the Cardinals game while Armashodu/Hester received 7 targets combined! While people are riding Aromashodu and Hester, Knox has great value He's fast, a great route runner and should be solid in a PPR league. He'll finish as Chicago's WR1.

Rice/VJAX - Again, not sure how you can rank these guys over Knox. You'll get solid PPR production from Knox while these guys ride the bench. Rice is out for half the season, is he even ownable at this point? Yeah, maybe if you have deep benches. And from the looks of it, doubt VJAX plays this year. If so, maybe the last 4-6 games so he can accrue a paycheck.

 

[comegetDATnguyen]

One last comment regarding Foster...

In all of my seasons playing fantasy, I've learned that opportunity and whether a certain player fits into the offensive scheme of his team or not can lead to fantasy gold.

The Texans are a zone blocking scheme offense and that's perfect for a guy like Foster who is a one cut and go type of runner. If Slaton can put up huge numbers in that offense, Foster certainly can and at this point...Foster looks a lot better than Slaton. And in that offense, Foster is the unquestioned primary back who should see 300 touches.

Also, he happens to play in one of the most high powered offenses in the league. Teams have no choice but to protect against the pass when you're up against the likes of Schaub, Andre, Jones, Walter and Daniels. This should open up some very nice holes for Foster just like it did for Slaton back in 2008

I can see Foster producing top 10 numbers but would I draft him as a top 10 RB? Probably not but he's set up nicely to have a solid season.

 

[Phicinfan]

DJAX - not sold on Kolb, he's looked pretty awful thus far. I still think Maclin outproduces DJAX this year. DJAX value lies in those deep TD passes and Kolb doesn't have the arm strength or deep accuracy that McNabb had. He still should be productive but certainly not a top 5 season. He'll be lucky to catch 75 balls...not that great in a PPR scoring system. I think Celek gets a big spike in value, he's Kolb's BFF.

Won't argue with you on Slaton or Foster. As I am not a fan of either right now.
I won't argue on Rice or VJax, as I have been the biggest spouter here saying don't waste picks on VJax.

But you are simply wrong above. Kolb is not only more accurate than McNabb, he has a better long throw than McNabb NOW. Kolb was the only Qb to pass for over 300yards in his first two pro games. Don't be fooled by the pre-season. It is throw away, and that is exactly what Philly does. Yes, Celek has the big benefit, but Tds which DJax will get makes up for lack of receptions.

 

[comegetDATnguyen]

Won't argue with you on Slaton or Foster. As I am not a fan of either right now.
I won't argue on Rice or VJax, as I have been the biggest spouter here saying don't waste picks on VJax.

But you are simply wrong above. Kolb is not only more accurate than McNabb, he has a better long throw than McNabb NOW. Kolb was the only Qb to pass for over 300yards in his first two pro games. Don't be fooled by the pre-season. It is throw away, and that is exactly what Philly does. Yes, Celek has the big benefit, but Tds which DJax will get makes up for lack of receptions.

I'll have to respectfully disagree, it's well documented in the NFL that McNabb has a stronger arm than Kolb and is more suited for the deep ball. McNabb couldn't hit a 10 yard pass for the life of him but he exceled at the deep pass.

Busted? Five Reasons Why Kevin Kolb Will Be a Bust | Bleacher Report - Go to slide 2

Eagles QB Kolb gets some pre-snap backing from Jaworski, Baldinger | Philadelphia Daily News | 07/23/2010

"Kolb is a different type of quarterback than McNabb. He doesn't have McNabb's big arm. But he has better mechanics than McNabb and is more accurate. He is a rhythm passer who gets the ball out quickly and allows his receivers to gain yards after the catch"

Kevin Kolb takes command of Eagles; can he lift them higher? - USATODAY.com

"Could Kolb be a more natural fit in Reid's offense than McNabb was? Decision-making and precise passes are his hallmarks and hitting his speedy receivers in stride could lead to game-breaking run-after-catch opportunities. McNabb's career completion percentage is less than 60%, but he did have a stronger arm than Kolb and was excellent at avoiding turnovers."

Now, you might say that this bodes well for DJAX as he'll get more passes but I don't think that's necessarily true. DJAX is a speedy, deep threat...not a possession receiver and rarely goes through the middle...he's just not that type of receiver. Doesn't mean he won't put up numbers but I'd temper expectations. Having 5-6 TDs for longer than 50 yards is just not sustainable and I see a regression in that.

And those two games...they were getting blown out by the Saints and Kolb attempted 51 passes. 2nd game came against the life-less Chiefs. He attempted 85 passes combined in those two games against bad defenses, doesn't really say much.

 

[Phicinfan]

I'll have to respectfully disagree, it's well documented in the NFL that McNabb has a stronger arm than Kolb and is more suited for the deep ball. McNabb couldn't hit a 10 yard pass for the life of him but he exceled at the deep pass.

Busted? Five Reasons Why Kevin Kolb Will Be a Bust | Bleacher Report - Go to slide 2

Eagles QB Kolb gets some pre-snap backing from Jaworski, Baldinger | Philadelphia Daily News | 07/23/2010

"Kolb is a different type of quarterback than McNabb. He doesn't have McNabb's big arm. But he has better mechanics than McNabb and is more accurate. He is a rhythm passer who gets the ball out quickly and allows his receivers to gain yards after the catch"

Kevin Kolb takes command of Eagles; can he lift them higher? - USATODAY.com

"Could Kolb be a more natural fit in Reid's offense than McNabb was? Decision-making and precise passes are his hallmarks and hitting his speedy receivers in stride could lead to game-breaking run-after-catch opportunities. McNabb's career completion percentage is less than 60%, but he did have a stronger arm than Kolb and was excellent at avoiding turnovers."

Now, you might say that this bodes well for DJAX as he'll get more passes but I don't think that's necessarily true. DJAX is a speedy, deep threat...not a possession receiver and rarely goes through the middle...he's just not that type of receiver. Doesn't mean he won't put up numbers but I'd temper expectations. Having 5-6 TDs for longer than 50 yards is just not sustainable and I see a regression in that.

And those two games...they were getting blown out by the Saints and Kolb attempted 51 passes. 2nd game came against the life-less Chiefs. He attempted 85 passes combined in those two games against bad defenses, doesn't really say much.

I appreciate you respectfully disagreeing, still I don't think you are correct.

Two starts last year.

In first start he was 31 of 51 for a 60+% completion rate for 391 yards. Against one of the top defenses last year in New Orleans. Now he threw 2tds, and 3ints. Still not bad for his first NFL start.

Second game he was 24 of 34 for a 70+% completion rate for 327 yards. Here he threw again for 2tds and this time no Ints.

Lets see how DeSean did.....
Week 2, the Saints game. Jackson had 4 rececptions for 101 yards, 1Td. Oh, and that was for 71 yards. Hmm.....
week 3 vs. KC - 6 receptions for 149 yards, 1Td and oh...a long of 64 yards.

Opinions are opinions, regardless of who gives them. Stats don't lie.

Kolb will be very, very good this year. In a pass oriented offense. DJax is the main spoke of that offense.

you may want to rethink your "opinion"

 

[Miller]

Looks like you have bought the FOster hype hook line and sinker.....hope it works out for ya. Still not buying, but that is OK. I have learned that sometimes you just have to go with your gut and sometimes when the public is all going hog wild jumping on a bandwagon the sage owners are the ones who sit back and watch.....I may miss on him, that is OK, no way I'm spending a late 3rd to early 4th on this kid. Enjoy, your mind is made up one him, hope it works for you.

 

[Miller]

Knox - I guess I'm high on him than others but I'm not sure how you can call him the 3rd option. He is clearly Cutler's favorite WR because he has the most targets this preseason than all the other Bears's WRs. He got 8 targets alone in the Cardinals game while Armashodu/Hester received 7 targets combined! While people are riding Aromashodu and Hester, Knox has great value He's fast, a great route runner and should be solid in a PPR league. He'll finish as Chicago's WR1.

​

Not trying to pick on ya.....but have a tip, if you want to make an argument for the value of a player, targets in the PRESEASON may not be the best argument to make. Personally, I don't see any of the 3 are great options, they will all have their weeks in the sun and many weeks where they are no where to be found. But in terms of 3rd options, I may be wrong, but I am pretty sure that Knox is not going to start, Hester and Aromashodu will be the starters with Knox as the 3rd. [*EDIT* thanks for #1bearsfan, Knox is starting now but looks to be even playing time with all 3] Knox will still get plenty of opps, but not going to jump over fences to get him. For me, I'd rather take a shot at someone who I may actually start for me at some point in the season.....Knox, I just don't see him as a good starting option in 12 team leagues.

Phic handled the DJax argument just fine....NO WAY Maclin out produces Jackson ,but again, your mind is made up so it's all good. Hope it works for you.

Good comments though, always nice to see other comments and other views.

 

[#1bears fan]

Knox is a starter opposite Hester, but aroma will be on the field just as much. Your right it wont be consistent no Chicago WR will be. At best Knox will finish with WR 3 numbers. Even if he does finish as Chicagos #1 WR thats as Fantasy relevant as being the #1 RB on New England!

 

[Miller]

by the way, comegetDATnguyen gets 1 mil vb's for starting this thread! Great discussion.

 

[Fire]

My 2 Pennies:

Love Foster-Wish my league drafted earlier as I could have gotten him in the later rounds, but since I am drafting in the 11th of 12 (and likely going WR/WR with 1st 2 picks) on Labor Day I am grabbing him and Finley in the late 3rd/early 4th if available.

Like Best a lot- Homer in me coming out, but injuries can not be predicted and he has looked explosive so far, looks like they will use him as a feature back, and has impressed the coaching staff way his has quickly picked up the playbook. Will target him if Foster is not there.

Like Knox- Looks like a good 7th/8th pick to me. Cutlers favorite target in practice and in pre-season in a Martz offense will be good value. Aromashodu might end up as better value in later rounds.

Kolb/DJax- Jury still out for me. Both could end up as good value at current ADP, but both could both disappoint (Kolb seems like more of a gamble than DJax). I will target Flacco for QB in the 7th/8th as I think he is in for a really good year.

Want to thank Miller for the PPR/RB post. Great info there that has made me re-adjust my rankings.

 

[Fire]

Here's more on Knox per roto world:

4. BEARS NO. 2 WR: JOHNNY KNOX vs. DEVIN AROMASHODU
Winner: Knox
Knox ran as the starter in minicamps, OTAs and the outset of camp. He did nothing to relinquish that role over the last month. Despite an atrocious preseason from the Bears, Knox remains a major breakout candidate. Aromashodu is still on the fantasy radar thanks to all the three-wide sets the Bears will run.

 

[Vicious_Machine]

@ Phicinfan : Question!!

Are you buying on DeSean in round 3 then? Or waiting until Round 5 for a Maclin instead? Miller does not seem that high on Maclin but reports say he could be the guy Kolb turns to more often?

And I agree with you that Kolb should be good, and it should be a pass happy offence too.

DeSean just seems too expensive for my taste, i rather have everybody else in tier 2 from Miller's rankings over him.

 

[Miller]

What are your concerns on Jackson? Personally, I'm all over him in rd 2, not to mention rd 3, but you can see how high on him I am.

What are these reports you cite that Kolb turns to Maclin more often? I would be interested in reading the reports or breakdowns. Are you referring to preseason targets?? Maclin had 11 targets in the 3rd preseason game, that sounds great....Jackson left early so there was a major reason and of the 11 targets, he only caught 3, the same number he DROPPED! Doesn't sound to good to me.

Jackson had almost as many receiving yds as Maclin had the entire preseason in the 2nd game alone! He barely play in the 3rd game and yet he still only had 1 less catch. When Jackson was not in the game, Kolb struggled.

Last year when Kolb started 2 games:
Jackson: 4-101-TD / 6-149-TD
Maclin: 2-12 / 4-33

Also, don't forget about the extra 150 yds Jackson gives you on the ground as well.

I just don't see the stats that back up that Kolb is turning to Maclin......Jackson still out performed Maclin despite an injury. Kolb looks like a different QB when Jackson is in the game. Also, Maclin better get a handle on his drops, you just can not drop 3 passes in a game at this level.