Christine Michael

[JScott]

So is everyone still as high on Michael as they were at the beginning of the season? The fact that he barely got on the field this season and didn't unseat Turbin as the #2 has me thinking SEA knows something we don't. Pete recently said he's still high on his future potential but not ready to give him more PT any time soon. Yikes. If he had any less PT he'd have less stats than Harvin. And it's not like SEA passes so much that the lack of pass blocking by the rookie is something to keep him off the field either.

Yet from a FF perspective, I can't find a single owner that isn't convinced he's still worth a 1st round pick. I realize potential carries a lot of weight but if this potential is so great how does he not get on the field more in 2013?

 

[mudloggerone]

He didn't get on the field because Lynch never went down. Turbin is the COP back and Christine (I hope) is the direct backup to Lynch.

 

[JScott]

He didn't get on the field because Lynch never went down. Turbin is the COP back and Christine (I hope) is the direct backup to Lynch.

I know Carol isn't a traditional coach but I'm not buying this mud. In today's NFL even if your workhorse doesn't "go down" he still gets rest. And it was Turbin who spelled Lynch, not just in COP instances. And how many games was Michael inactive? A lot. You don't do that to your workhorse's 'cuff. If you're inactive you can't really come in if Lynch goes down.

 

[mudloggerone]

Color me as one who still believes.

 

[Phicinfan]

He has incredible talent, but is rough and needs coaching especially in blocking. I think he is still the heir to Beast mode. The key is the criminal courts for Beast mode. He could be cut loose next year if this is an issue.

 

[JScott]

He has incredible talent, but is rough and needs coaching especially in blocking.

This is the tag line for most rookie RBs, but they eventually get worked into the fold as the year goes on (see Ball, Montee). And Ball even got PT after fumbling issues. You don't draft an RB that high, who has that much talent only to sit him for almost the whole season. RB is the easiest position to assimilate to from college to the pros, where blocking is the lynch (no pun intended) pin but how much do RBs have to block in SEA's offense? And how else does he start to learn to block if not for PT? Certainly not by being deactivated. I'm not saying it's necessarily all Michael's fault, maybe there's some escalator in Lynch's contract based on carries, who knows but the situation just doesn't make sense. Something's off.

 

[Phicinfan]

This is the tag line for most rookie RBs, but they eventually get worked into the fold as the year goes on (see Ball, Montee). And Ball even got PT after fumbling issues. You don't draft an RB that high, who has that much talent only to sit him for almost the whole season. RB is the easiest position to assimilate to from college to the pros, where blocking is the lynch (no pun intended) pin but how much do RBs have to block in SEA's offense? And how else does he start to learn to block if not for PT? Certainly not by being deactivated. I'm not saying it's necessarily all Michael's fault, maybe there's some escalator in Lynch's contract based on carries, who knows but the situation just doesn't make sense. Something's off.

You could be right. It could be they lost faith in him.

It could be the HC has full trust in Beast Mode and wanted to rely on that. Lets be honest here, the offense wasn't all that powerful, and it was mainly focused on Lynch, once Harvin was out of the picture.

That being said, I also think the reliance on Christine will depend greatly on what happens this off-season. As a Lynch owner in HG this year, I followed news on him very, very closely. His court date kept getting shoved back, and there is some speculation charges will get dropped. Then again, the other key thing is the fact that post week 2, he never, let me stress this NEVER had a full week of practice. Rumors or knee issues and just resting a vet player abound.

Lets see what happens. IF Seattle takes a RB above round 3, I would worry for Christine, and Lynch for that matter. If not, then I think owners just have to be patient, and see if Lynch has a court date, or Seattle cost saves him out.

 

[mudloggerone]

Darn good post PhiCin. I too own Lynch and share many of your thoughts. Good questions JScott. Very nice discussion guys.

 

[Arctic Dawgs]

a couple points that Phic didn't bring up. 27 years old so I think we could expect a couple more top years out of him still. Compare them to Gore/Lattimore situation. Gores #s have a significant decline after about week 10 in both of the last 2 years.

Seattle has some cap issues that will rise up for the 2015 season. for 2014 they will have over $25mil in cap space after cutting Rice and Miller. They have a large list of players that are going to be due significant coin over the next 3 years. They will start to work on those players #s this offseason. How that will play into Lynches role is that he has 2 or 3 years left on his contract that will be fairly high. If Lynch loses his court case I think he will get a 4 game suspension at most by rule. In his contract Seattle has a clause that could wipe out all guarantees for personnel conduct violations or something. I don't see Seattle cutting a Superbowl MVP quality player over a 2 year old DUI, which means you are looking at 2015/16 before getting the high expected value or are waiting for a major injury to Lynch.

Last year in Hafax we took Lacy with #4 pick. Lattimore with the #9 pick (that was too early but we were unable to trade back and that was who I wanted. Want/expect a 2014 payoff on him). Was unable to trade up from #22, but was shocked to still get Michael there, who was our 3rd target in last years draft. (Want/expected a 2015 payoff on him). Hafax is IDP but only 2 LBs went ahead of Micheal.

My point is a early/mid 2nd rd pick last year in Keeper/Dynasty 16 team leagues last year that is still at least a year away from contributing shouldn't see his value go up to an early 1st. I haven't started looking at this years rookie crop yet but I value CM as a late 1st/early 2nd pick (12th/18th).

As you can see I am an old school RBs 1st Fantasy type, but that is what I would give for Michael but I wouldn't give him away for that. You are gambling on the 2015/2016 seasons

 

[Miller]

This may be a guy you have to wait on a 2nd contract from to see a real return.....could be earlier, but I worry as well that if he's as good as the hype....why is turbin still #2?.....but I would not give up yet either.

 

[cctekguy]

I dunno, guys.

Lots of intangibles involved here.

I really know nothing of Michael, nor his hype or even his name until Mud made such a big deal out of him, so I'm not jumping on or off a band wagon here.

But doesn't it stand to reason that a truly successful organization honors the team first instead of deifying rookies?

There is something to be said for making kids pay their dues and supporting the guys that got you to where you are.

Maybe Michael IS a better RB than Turbin, but what message is sent to the team when a rookie immediately replaces someone that was instrumental the year before?

Could be that Michael has lost the coach's confidence but it could also be that Turbin hasn't done anything to lose it.

When we talk about championship teams, isn't there always mention of a special "chemistry" the players and coaches had?

Maybe job security is a part of that chemistry and that it's important for the vets to know that some "hot shot" rookie isn't going to swoop in and take their job, especially when the team was successful BEFORE the rook ever suited up.

 

[mudloggerone]

by Larry Hartstein | CBSSports.com
(02/10/14) "

With Seahawks running back Marshawn Lynch coming off 400-plus touches, an intriguing battle for the backup spot is shaping up between Robert Turbin and Christine Michael, reports the Seattle Times.
Turbin excels in pass protection and the team trusted him to spell Lynch down the stretch. He averaged 3.4 yards on 77 regular-season carries.

A second-round pick last year, the more explosive Michael finished his rookie season with 79 yards on 18 carries. He'll push Turbin in training camp."

 

[JScott]

Nice tidbit, thanks Mud.

 

[mudloggerone]

The following is from the Seattle Times and my thanks to rotoworld.com


"
The Seattle Times says Christine Michael "looms large" in the Seahawks' future.

Michael was a strict third-stringer as a rookie, appearing in just four games and totaling 18 carries. But as the Times notes, he'll be better positioned to battle Robert Turbin for backup duties in 2014. Michael is already a more explosive and powerful runner, he just needs to polish up his game and gain trust in pass pro. Marshawn Lynch turns 28 years old in April and his contract is up following the 2015 season."

 

[JScott]

Ha.... "looms large" but will be better positions to battle Turbin for backup duties. Now I understand high asking price

 

[Phicinfan]

Ha.... "looms large" but will be better positions to battle Turbin for backup duties. Now I understand high asking price

The key on his value has always been what happens to Lynch. He has court issues hanging over his head, and his contract is pretty heavy, if they feel they need to cut bait. But since he has mainly stayed clean....who knows?

 

[Arctic Dawgs]

The key on his value has always been what happens to Lynch. He has court issues hanging over his head, and his contract is pretty heavy, if they feel they need to cut bait. But since he has mainly stayed clean....who knows?

Yup, Turbin is COP/backup. He has pretty well been bumped from Backup but is still COP and I don't see that changing. Michael won't spell/bump Turbin from 3rd down/COP unless Tubin gets hurt. He will replace Lynch if injured, not Turbin

Lynches court issue is a possible 4 game suspension at most under the CBA. No issue here other than Sea has a backout clause in his contract if they should choose to use it. I don't see them using it.

Saw somewhere about Lynches contract. Was surprised at how low it was. I was hoping Michael would be the main guy for 2015 but am starting to get concerned on that now. I am feeling Sea will just run his contract out, which means Michael may not be the main guy until 2016 unless Lynch suffers a major injury

 

[mudloggerone]

After 400 plus touches it could happen.

 

[mudloggerone]

Even a Beast gets burdened after a while. They all have before.

 

[JScott]

Yup, Turbin is COP/backup. He has pretty well been bumped from Backup but is still COP and I don't see that changing. Michael won't spell/bump Turbin from 3rd down/COP unless Tubin gets hurt. He will replace Lynch if injured, not Turbin

Lynches court issue is a possible 4 game suspension at most under the CBA. No issue here other than Sea has a backout clause in his contract if they should choose to use it. I don't see them using it.

Saw somewhere about Lynches contract. Was surprised at how low it was. I was hoping Michael would be the main guy for 2015 but am starting to get concerned on that now. I am feeling Sea will just run his contract out, which means Michael may not be the main guy until 2016 unless Lynch suffers a major injury

AD you certainly follow SEA more closely than I do but why would you say Turbin has been bumped from Backup? I understand that's what's expected but in looking at the game logs Turbin was the Backup and COP back in 2013, where Michael was inactive a lot of games. So are you just speculating that Turbin will be bumped?