:nono: Sorry, but according to what I have read, it is now apart of the collective bargaining. so if that goes..so does the draft.....
Last edited by a moderator:
Pros and Cons of the Collective Bargaining Agreement
- Thread starter Phicinfan
- Start date
Arctic Dawgs
Well-Known Member
I don't think College players are in the NFLPA. It is not up to them whether there is a draft or not. If there is no collective agreement they will have no say on where/when/how/anything as far as a draft is concerned. It will solely at the NFL owners discretion.
Don't forget all rules as far as OTA's, what/how many offseason workouts can be had, team disciplinary fines, etc... can be levied. All these issues will now be totally up to the owners, either collectively or individually. How many players would really benifit from no cap versus how many are going to be hurt by all the other stuff.
Players may view this as a huge cash cow coming, but there are a lot of other aspects in the agreement that they will not be very happy to loose. Same old story, "Be Careful What You Wish For. You just might get it"
Last edited by a moderator:
From what i have read it has nothing to do with the college players per say. It was a negotiated piece in the collective bargaining agreement for the placement of talent. Had it not been there, teams could go and sign whoever, and pay whatever. I will go and see if I can find that source I read again. But I am almost positive that i read if the CBA is gone...so is the draft and cap and tags and all that such is gone.
Arctic Dawgs
Well-Known Member
Don't you mean "negotiated into the collective agreement". That still has absolutly no bearing on what I said. The NFL Owners (collectively) will be able to do what they want if there is no "Collective Agreement". Do you think the owners will be thrown in jail if they have a draft without an agreement or something ?? They will be able to do as they wish (with a league teams agreement) and the only recourse available to the PA will be a fullblown work stoppage.
Just the fact that there is no agreement in place with the NFLPA in no way prevents the NFL from having a draft. That part will go on as usual
DearbornDolfan
Active Member
That's not the case at all. If the CBA lapses, and players don't go on strike, everything reverts to owner/league control as the owners vote on it. Basically the NFL could, in the span on a week-long meeting, redistribute all the things delineated in the CBA. Nothing keeps college and Arena players from signing with NFL teams even if the NFLPA decides it doesn't want to play ball.
So, in the end, the players have NO leverage here. They can either go along to get along or they can be shown what it's like looking from the outside in.
What is being missed is if the CBA is gone, and owners do whatever, the union pulls out, and won't back up, nor support any rookies that sign without there support. That will effective be a scab league, which no agent will allow a player to sign into. Basically, the union WANTS the draft to end, so there players go out on auction and are highest bidder. Means more money for the players.
Mike
Administrator
There would still be a draft, and it would simply to the benefit of the league, not the players.
The "league" would require a draft, and the league could set maximum limits on salaries for rookie players, effectively removing "all" power from the agents.
If the league puts forth a rule stating that all 1st round players will make 250K per year for their first 3 years in the league, and that the team drafting said player has their rights for their first three years in the league, there is nothing an agent can do about it, and the only thing a player could do is go to another league.
In addition to that, the "league" could impose an immediate rule for "blood testing" for steroids, HGH, and such. The player has only 2 choice here. Submit to the testing, or not play in the league.
The "league" would require a draft, and the league could set maximum limits on salaries for rookie players, effectively removing "all" power from the agents.
If the league puts forth a rule stating that all 1st round players will make 250K per year for their first 3 years in the league, and that the team drafting said player has their rights for their first three years in the league, there is nothing an agent can do about it, and the only thing a player could do is go to another league.
In addition to that, the "league" could impose an immediate rule for "blood testing" for steroids, HGH, and such. The player has only 2 choice here. Submit to the testing, or not play in the league.
I am still looking, but I see the point.
However, things to consider:
First according to most sources if they go to a non-capped year next year, then any succeeding CBA will end up with no salary cap...since the NFLPA won't ever agree to it again, per the NFLPA.
Also, if there is no agreement by after the draft in 2011, then the CBA is done...and look for a lockout by owners. NFLPA will then disband... and all bets are off after that.
I am still looking...but I KNOW I saw somewhere that the draft was tied in. I do know some feel that the owners will push for a rookie salary scale in the next agreement. I actually think that would be better than a hard cap per say.
But to do this the "league" and all owners in that "league" would have to agree to it.....they could also scarp the draft and they would all become FA's, very unlikely, but possible without a CBA. Your right, the league woudl have all the cards, but they would also need to agree amounst themselves how this all would come down.
Mike
Administrator
Just and FYI to pay attention to during all of this mess.
Not only baseball players, but football players will be looking at what happened with the Steroid situation in Major League Baseball.
Baseball players were supposed to be protected during the testing back in the early 2000's, and were promised protection by the Union. The Government got their noses in it, and the players got screwed over royally, because all those anonymous tests, were no longer anonymous.
From this point on, you can expect all these players unions to be much tougher in regards to negotiations. Baseball players got comfortable, gave in a little, and many now have potentially ruined their names. You can bet these guys are now talking amongst themselves in regards to any future negotiations, and football players are right there in on the conversation.
Not only baseball players, but football players will be looking at what happened with the Steroid situation in Major League Baseball.
Baseball players were supposed to be protected during the testing back in the early 2000's, and were promised protection by the Union. The Government got their noses in it, and the players got screwed over royally, because all those anonymous tests, were no longer anonymous.
From this point on, you can expect all these players unions to be much tougher in regards to negotiations. Baseball players got comfortable, gave in a little, and many now have potentially ruined their names. You can bet these guys are now talking amongst themselves in regards to any future negotiations, and football players are right there in on the conversation.
Mike
Administrator
The league commish would make decisions based on a majority rule. I am willing to bet that the majority of owners want capped rookie salaries and to keep the draft.
In addition to that, they would push for increased drug testing, with less regard toward safety (blood testing).
I brought most of this up quite some time back (before the season I believe). There is going to be a tough battle between the league and the players, and it is going to take place under a very stubborn commissioner. At the time, it didn't sound like too big of a deal, basically a small "black eye" for the league due to a short lockout/strike. Now the setting will be different. The league no longer has an NFLPA leader that they can easily push around. The association will likely be looking for someone who is willing to stand toe-to-toe with the league on all issues, leaving the commish and the owners with some serious decisions to make.
Arctic Dawgs
Well-Known Member
By "all owners" I am assuming you mean "a majority of owners, as they see fit to determine".
One thing to bear in mind is that in every labour agreement I have ever seen there is always a clause that the agreement will will be followed by both parties until there is a knew agreement in place with the exception of clauses of that agreement that have an specific expiration dates. I have seen these clauses put in many Union Agreements during tougher times on roll-backs the union will agree to for a limited time (1 & 1/2 instead of double time for a limited # of overtime hrs, longer work day, less holiday pay, etc ...).
Is this just an expiring clause or is the whole CBA expired ?
Yes, but remember if there is no CBA they can just do it.
From what I have seen I don't believe the NFL will have a lockout. It is not in the owners interest and it seems that they are happy with the status quo. Why would they shut it down ?
The players on the other hand seem to be the ones that are not happy, so a atrike on their part to try and force the owners into accepting their demands is much more likely. This at a time when they are going through a leadership change.
I'm thinking we will see this settled before any major actions, or we are looking at something long and drawn out by a newbie trying to make his rep. I can't see any middle ground over this issue
The clause I understand is if the owners back out, as they did, then the CBA ONLY lasts till the draft of 2011. Then the agreement is null and void. At least from all I have read it as anyways.
If the owners unilaterally force an issue, then the Players will strike. I am not positive on this, but without sometype of agreement, there can be no play as no insurance or that sort of thing will exist. So by definition...it could be a lock out until owners get what they want.Arctic Dogs said: