efactor
Coming at you
Actually excited to watch a meaningless week 17 game. That says something about the excitement level he has created.
Also, FAs that would not have considered SF might stop and take a look now, especially receivers.
Qb race for 2018
- Thread starter Phicinfan
- Start date
Actually excited to watch a meaningless week 17 game. That says something about the excitement level he has created.
Also, FAs that would not have considered SF might stop and take a look now, especially receivers.
Arctic Dawgs
Well-Known Member
remember the words of Walsh.... you get your recievers when every other team need has been met
efactor
Coming at you
He had Freddie Soloman when he inherited the team and then drafted Dwight Clark. Russ Francis and then Brent Jones at TE. Then drafted Jerry Rice and John Taylor. Not a lot of need to draft WRs after that.
SF will get a big WR to go with Garçon, Goodwin and Taylor. Kittle looks like a keeper at TE with a competent QB.
Arctic Dawgs
Well-Known Member
He meant that WRs were the least important position on the team. Build every thing else first
Arctic Dawgs
Well-Known Member
Well the 1st 20 picks are now set, pending trades. We prolly need to wait until after a month of FA and after the combine to be able to really decifer what most of the teams should do, however a lot of things are becoming apparent. Below is draft order with 2018 Cap room (there will be some adjusting on this as well) and team needs:
1 ) Cle - $109.5mil : QB, RB, CB In the last 3 years they have drafted 21 players in the 1st 4 rds, 2 OL, 7 DL, 3 Saf, 1 CB, & @ skill Pos, 4 WR, 1 RB, 1 TE & 2 QB. This year they have 5 picks in the first 2 rds and also have some comps I believe (not sure which rds). They should be able to get a couple key FAs (WR ?) with all that $$ room, but I wonder how much actual cash they have. Signing bonuses and Guaranteed portions have to be paid up front or put in escrow accounts. I believe they should sign a veteran FA QB and use pick #1 on the best QB in the class.
2 ) NYG - $28.9mil : OL, QB, RB In the last 3 years they have drafted 11 players in the 1st 4 rds. 1 OT, 2 DL, 1 LB, 2 Saf, 1 CB, & @ skill positions 1 WR, 1 TE, 1 RB, and 1 QB. Not sure how much youth they have, but with a new GM and not a whole lot of cap room I expect to see a lot of changes here. I fully expect to see Eli here for 1 more season and doubt he would take a pay cut. They need to draft their QB of the future and groom him. You don't (better not) get too many chances like this to do it. I am not in favour of using picks this high on Oline (Mandarich anyone ??)
3 ) Ind - $83.6mil : ILB, OL, Rusher In the last 3 yrs they have drafted 14 players in the 1st 4 rds. 2 OL, 4 DL, 1 LB, 3 Saf, 2 CB, & @ skill positions 1 WR & 1 RB. Too early for Oline, Is there a Keuchly there, Can't see anyone trading up here for a QB, so can they get much of a haul ??. Is there a bona-fide pass-rusher this year ??
4 ) Cle - $109.5mil : RB, CB Does Saquon Barckley go here or do they try and trade back with Den or NYJ so they can get the QB they want. I think Cle trades with 1 of these 2 teams (unless either of them sign a solid FA QB) and takes the RB with the new pick.
5 ) Den - $29.4mil : OL, QB In the last 3 yrs they have drafted 12 players in the 1st 4 rds. 3 OL, 3 DL, 1 Saf, 1 CB, & @ skill positions 1 ea @ QB/RB/WR/TE. I don't think they are satisfied that Lynch can be their guy , and a FA would eat up their present cap room, so are they going to make some extra cap room and go FA at QB and draft Oline, or draft a new QB for the future ??
6 ) NYJ - $79.3mil : OL, QB, RB, WR In the last 3 yrs they have drafted 12 players in the 1st 4 rds. 0 OL, 1 DT, 3 LB, 2 Saf, 1 CB, & @ skill positions 2 QB 2 WR. Not much to show for it. Will they try and leap-frog Den or go with a FA. A lot of work needs to be done here
picks 7 - 10 TBB, Chi, SF, & Oak/LV do not seem to have a QB need, so it kind of looks like 1 FA and 3 QBs drafted in the top 10 picks
1 ) Cle - $109.5mil : QB, RB, CB In the last 3 years they have drafted 21 players in the 1st 4 rds, 2 OL, 7 DL, 3 Saf, 1 CB, & @ skill Pos, 4 WR, 1 RB, 1 TE & 2 QB. This year they have 5 picks in the first 2 rds and also have some comps I believe (not sure which rds). They should be able to get a couple key FAs (WR ?) with all that $$ room, but I wonder how much actual cash they have. Signing bonuses and Guaranteed portions have to be paid up front or put in escrow accounts. I believe they should sign a veteran FA QB and use pick #1 on the best QB in the class.
2 ) NYG - $28.9mil : OL, QB, RB In the last 3 years they have drafted 11 players in the 1st 4 rds. 1 OT, 2 DL, 1 LB, 2 Saf, 1 CB, & @ skill positions 1 WR, 1 TE, 1 RB, and 1 QB. Not sure how much youth they have, but with a new GM and not a whole lot of cap room I expect to see a lot of changes here. I fully expect to see Eli here for 1 more season and doubt he would take a pay cut. They need to draft their QB of the future and groom him. You don't (better not) get too many chances like this to do it. I am not in favour of using picks this high on Oline (Mandarich anyone ??)
3 ) Ind - $83.6mil : ILB, OL, Rusher In the last 3 yrs they have drafted 14 players in the 1st 4 rds. 2 OL, 4 DL, 1 LB, 3 Saf, 2 CB, & @ skill positions 1 WR & 1 RB. Too early for Oline, Is there a Keuchly there, Can't see anyone trading up here for a QB, so can they get much of a haul ??. Is there a bona-fide pass-rusher this year ??
4 ) Cle - $109.5mil : RB, CB Does Saquon Barckley go here or do they try and trade back with Den or NYJ so they can get the QB they want. I think Cle trades with 1 of these 2 teams (unless either of them sign a solid FA QB) and takes the RB with the new pick.
5 ) Den - $29.4mil : OL, QB In the last 3 yrs they have drafted 12 players in the 1st 4 rds. 3 OL, 3 DL, 1 Saf, 1 CB, & @ skill positions 1 ea @ QB/RB/WR/TE. I don't think they are satisfied that Lynch can be their guy , and a FA would eat up their present cap room, so are they going to make some extra cap room and go FA at QB and draft Oline, or draft a new QB for the future ??
6 ) NYJ - $79.3mil : OL, QB, RB, WR In the last 3 yrs they have drafted 12 players in the 1st 4 rds. 0 OL, 1 DT, 3 LB, 2 Saf, 1 CB, & @ skill positions 2 QB 2 WR. Not much to show for it. Will they try and leap-frog Den or go with a FA. A lot of work needs to be done here
picks 7 - 10 TBB, Chi, SF, & Oak/LV do not seem to have a QB need, so it kind of looks like 1 FA and 3 QBs drafted in the top 10 picks
Fully agree with you on pick 1 and pick 2. I also agree Cleveland needs to get one of the better FA Qbs to fill in until the rookie is ready. I will say though, they are not that far away. With NJoku, Higgins, Coleman and more importantly a clean Josh Gordon they have great tools to work with. I would definitely look at the Penn State Rb Barkley if they don't get good trade offers from Qb hungry teams.
As for NYG have to go QB, they are not as bad as they played, with a solid coach and some healthy players they will be 8-8 again or better. So have to get the Qb of the future, and let Eli walk after his last year runs out.
Indy would best behoove to trade down and get more picks to fill all the holes they have. If not Barkley to replace Gore is a solid idea as well. I agree OL this high never really seem to pan out.
efactor
Coming at you
Walsh took over perhaps the least talented team in NFL history in 1979. His first pick ever was James Owens from UCLA who Walsh drafted as a WR but he couldn’t catch so his short career was mainly as a RB. His 2nd pick (3rd round) that year was Joe Montana. He also drafted WR Dwight Clark late in that draft.
Bill liked to listen to himself talk. His first pick in 1980 was RB Earl Cooper who was so bad they moved him to TE a couple years later. Guess RBs were the foundation to build your team on. Lol.
Arctic Dawgs
Well-Known Member
Note to PC/JS, "Your 1st rd picks have not worked out yet and you refuse to get Russell some protection with Oline, so PLEASE do the team a favour and take a Kicker this year in Rd 1"
So Qbs that have officially posted they are in this draft:
Sam Darnold Qb USC - declared
Josh Rosen Qb UCLA - declared
Josh Allen Qb Wyoming - declared
Lamar Jackson Qb Louisville - declared
Baker Mayfield Qb Oklahoma - 5th year senior
Mason Rudolph Qb Oklahoma State - Senior
Sam Darnold Qb USC - declared
Josh Rosen Qb UCLA - declared
Josh Allen Qb Wyoming - declared
Lamar Jackson Qb Louisville - declared
Baker Mayfield Qb Oklahoma - 5th year senior
Mason Rudolph Qb Oklahoma State - Senior
Potential Unrestricted Free Agents in 2018
Kirk Cousins Qb Was - he was on 2nd franchise tags, and latest review by HC was not glowing
Alex Smith Qb KC - most feel KC will go with rookie next year
Jimmy Garoppolo Qb SF - I can't believe that SF will let him walk, but lets see
Drew Brees Qb N.O. - again, N.O. needs him, but he will cost
Sam Bradford Qb Min - Minny will need someone at Qb - Bradford And Keenum are FA's at end of year, some question on Bridgewater
Teddy Bridgewater Qb Min - Here is the rub, his contract is up this year, and they declined the option year. However, had he not played they could have tolled him, but he did play in one game, so by rule he should be an FA.
Kase Keenum Qb Min - FA at end of year - Minny signs him as bridge?
Other Qb question marks:
Arizona - Carson Palmer has retired
Pittsburgh - Big Ben was close to retiring this year by some stories, will he retire at end of year if they win it all?
Kirk Cousins Qb Was - he was on 2nd franchise tags, and latest review by HC was not glowing
Alex Smith Qb KC - most feel KC will go with rookie next year
Jimmy Garoppolo Qb SF - I can't believe that SF will let him walk, but lets see
Drew Brees Qb N.O. - again, N.O. needs him, but he will cost
Sam Bradford Qb Min - Minny will need someone at Qb - Bradford And Keenum are FA's at end of year, some question on Bridgewater
Teddy Bridgewater Qb Min - Here is the rub, his contract is up this year, and they declined the option year. However, had he not played they could have tolled him, but he did play in one game, so by rule he should be an FA.
Kase Keenum Qb Min - FA at end of year - Minny signs him as bridge?
Other Qb question marks:
Arizona - Carson Palmer has retired
Pittsburgh - Big Ben was close to retiring this year by some stories, will he retire at end of year if they win it all?
Were they to win it I think Ben is done. He may well be done when the fail to win it as well.
Season has ended, lets update this now that we are in playoff mode
AFC East:
New England - have Brady. Need Qb of future - but won't look early
Buffalo - Tyrod Taylor has high cost, and does not seem to be in solid position.
Miami Dolphins - Tannehill by reports Head Coach expects Tannehill to start next year. But may need future as his contract runs out 2020
NY Jets - McCown may be back, and he would be a great bridge, still they need a franchise Qb.
AFC North:
Pittsburgh - Big Ben is rumbling about retirement. If he does, not sure who they have behind will work
Baltimore - Flacco - but no depth. - Is it time to look to new?
Cincinnati - Have Dalton as starter - and McCarron may be a Restricted FA or unrestricted FA. Still don't see pressing need to draft Qb early.
Cleveland - Kizer is not the answer - Look for Pick #1 or Pick #4 to be Qb.
AFC South:
Tennessee Titans - Mariota is the real deal, and they keep adding parts to help him.
Jacksonville - Bortles is not consistent enough. Time to move on, but I see a Vet here, rather than draft spot.
Houston - Watson is the man, so no they are solid here.
Indianapolis - Luck returns they are set, if not they have Brissett. I don't see a draft move here.
AFC West:
Kansas City - Mahomes will probably start - can they get trade value for Alex Smith? or just dump salary?
Denver - No Qb option here - Paxton Lynch looks to be a bust, Osweiler and Siemian are not the answer but Chad Kelly could develop later. Need Qb, but again, would vet bet better? Break the bank to get Brees or get Cousins?
Oakland/Las Vegas - Carr is the man in Oakland they are solid.
Los Angeles Chargers - Rivers is the man, but he is getting old in the tooth. If they keep losing, I can see them drafting for the future and taking Rivers eventual replacement.
NFC East:
Philadelphia - Wentz was a great trade up value - they are set for a while.
Washington - Cousins is a great Qb, but they won't tag him again. Can they sign him? If not they HAVE to get a Qb in draft.
Dallas - Dak is Dak and he is solid. No need here.
NY Giants - Eli should remain, and wants to, but new GM may rather trade and push for rookie to start. Regardless they will draft a Qb early first, is my bet.
NFC North:
Minnesota - Bradford, Keenum and Bridgewater are all FAs at end of season - Bridgewater might not be, but since he played in one game I think he is. They did not pick up his option. So Qb is a need. Gut says they sign one of the three for vet presence.
Green Bay - Rodgers is there(hurt) and so is Hundley - doubt they look at Qb
Detroit - Just signed Stafford to an extension so no looky here.
Chicago - Just drafted Trubisky and he is starting now.
NFC South:
Carolina - Got Cam they are fine
New Orleans - Brees on last year of contract. They really need to resign him, or they must draft or sign another vet.
Atlanta - Matty Ice makes this no issue
Tampa Bay - Winston is looking pretty good.
NFC West:
Los Angeles Rams - Goff seems to finally be growing into the role.
Seattle - Wilson is set
Arizona - Carson has retired, and Stanton and Co. is not the fix. This is a must need.
San Francisco - traded for Garoppolo and it looks like a good fit. Need to sign him long term or at least FT him.
Top 10 picks:
Cleveland - need Qb
NY Giants - need Qb
Indianapolis - if Luck back - don't need
Cleveland - from Houston - Need Qb but should take at #1
Denver - need Qb
NY Jets - need Qb
Tampa Bay - No need at Qb
Chicago - no need at Qb
San Fran - no need at Qb
Oakland - no need at Qb
Top Qbs in draft:
Darnold - USC - underclassman - declared for draft
Allen - Wyoming - underclassman - declared for draft
Rosen - UCLA - underclassman - declared for draft
Rudolph - Oklahoma St. - senior
Jackson - Louisville - underclassman - declared for draft
AFC East:
New England - have Brady. Need Qb of future - but won't look early
Buffalo - Tyrod Taylor has high cost, and does not seem to be in solid position.
Miami Dolphins - Tannehill by reports Head Coach expects Tannehill to start next year. But may need future as his contract runs out 2020
NY Jets - McCown may be back, and he would be a great bridge, still they need a franchise Qb.
AFC North:
Pittsburgh - Big Ben is rumbling about retirement. If he does, not sure who they have behind will work
Baltimore - Flacco - but no depth. - Is it time to look to new?
Cincinnati - Have Dalton as starter - and McCarron may be a Restricted FA or unrestricted FA. Still don't see pressing need to draft Qb early.
Cleveland - Kizer is not the answer - Look for Pick #1 or Pick #4 to be Qb.
AFC South:
Tennessee Titans - Mariota is the real deal, and they keep adding parts to help him.
Jacksonville - Bortles is not consistent enough. Time to move on, but I see a Vet here, rather than draft spot.
Houston - Watson is the man, so no they are solid here.
Indianapolis - Luck returns they are set, if not they have Brissett. I don't see a draft move here.
AFC West:
Kansas City - Mahomes will probably start - can they get trade value for Alex Smith? or just dump salary?
Denver - No Qb option here - Paxton Lynch looks to be a bust, Osweiler and Siemian are not the answer but Chad Kelly could develop later. Need Qb, but again, would vet bet better? Break the bank to get Brees or get Cousins?
Oakland/Las Vegas - Carr is the man in Oakland they are solid.
Los Angeles Chargers - Rivers is the man, but he is getting old in the tooth. If they keep losing, I can see them drafting for the future and taking Rivers eventual replacement.
NFC East:
Philadelphia - Wentz was a great trade up value - they are set for a while.
Washington - Cousins is a great Qb, but they won't tag him again. Can they sign him? If not they HAVE to get a Qb in draft.
Dallas - Dak is Dak and he is solid. No need here.
NY Giants - Eli should remain, and wants to, but new GM may rather trade and push for rookie to start. Regardless they will draft a Qb early first, is my bet.
NFC North:
Minnesota - Bradford, Keenum and Bridgewater are all FAs at end of season - Bridgewater might not be, but since he played in one game I think he is. They did not pick up his option. So Qb is a need. Gut says they sign one of the three for vet presence.
Green Bay - Rodgers is there(hurt) and so is Hundley - doubt they look at Qb
Detroit - Just signed Stafford to an extension so no looky here.
Chicago - Just drafted Trubisky and he is starting now.
NFC South:
Carolina - Got Cam they are fine
New Orleans - Brees on last year of contract. They really need to resign him, or they must draft or sign another vet.
Atlanta - Matty Ice makes this no issue
Tampa Bay - Winston is looking pretty good.
NFC West:
Los Angeles Rams - Goff seems to finally be growing into the role.
Seattle - Wilson is set
Arizona - Carson has retired, and Stanton and Co. is not the fix. This is a must need.
San Francisco - traded for Garoppolo and it looks like a good fit. Need to sign him long term or at least FT him.
Top 10 picks:
Cleveland - need Qb
NY Giants - need Qb
Indianapolis - if Luck back - don't need
Cleveland - from Houston - Need Qb but should take at #1
Denver - need Qb
NY Jets - need Qb
Tampa Bay - No need at Qb
Chicago - no need at Qb
San Fran - no need at Qb
Oakland - no need at Qb
Top Qbs in draft:
Darnold - USC - underclassman - declared for draft
Allen - Wyoming - underclassman - declared for draft
Rosen - UCLA - underclassman - declared for draft
Rudolph - Oklahoma St. - senior
Jackson - Louisville - underclassman - declared for draft
Arctic Dawgs
Well-Known Member
I have been seeing some bits and bites about Bridgewater having an extra year added to the rookie thing because of a year on PUP. It would mean that 2018 would count as his 4th year and they would still be allowed to exercise 5th year option. I think some of the other teams are fighting against the move
Except one thing. He wasn't on PUP all year, he actually played in one game for a few snaps. That should have cancelled that issue I think.
Arctic Dawgs
Well-Known Member
Arctic Dawgs
Well-Known Member
Now that we are starting to get into the season, What impact do you think the Grap trade has on QB value. A top 2nd rd'er for a QB without a contract. Now we have Alex Smith, a very experienced QB with a couple systems under his belt and 1 $20mil year left on contract. A High 2nd rounder, ?? Cle's Hou 2nd or Phi 2nd ?? Early 2nd or Late 2nd ?? more ??
Right now KC is sitting at just under $5mil over the 2018 cap, So cutting Smith would give them $17 mil back, suppose Cle gives a 2nd for Alex and takes a couple other cap guys off KCs roster. Something like that would give the Chiefs an extra 2nd and about $30mil in cap space. Not many other teams in the position to offer anything like that to KC
Cle is currently sitting with $110mil in cap space
Right now KC is sitting at just under $5mil over the 2018 cap, So cutting Smith would give them $17 mil back, suppose Cle gives a 2nd for Alex and takes a couple other cap guys off KCs roster. Something like that would give the Chiefs an extra 2nd and about $30mil in cap space. Not many other teams in the position to offer anything like that to KC
Cle is currently sitting with $110mil in cap space
I can see a few teams looking to go vet vs. Rookie.
Denver - They tried to go rookie and failed just 2 years ago. their defense is primed but older and they need to win now, not long term. But will KC trade to a in conf. team - I don't think so. Bradford maybe? Cousins?
Cleveland - the best thing they could do, and have the cap space and trade capital to do it, is make a deal for A.Smith and also draft for future. Will Smith live with this?
Jacksonville - they HAVE to have a vet. They too have tools to win now, but not sure they have cap space. A.Smith would be an awesome fit here. As would Bradford or Cousins - but Cousins will cost.
Arizona - again not as good as Denver, but they will have new coach. So a move to trade up, if possible to get a Qb may be best way.
Buffalo - again, they are run heavy and want ball control QB - so a A.Smith would be huge here, and they also have trade capital to do it.
Wild cards here :
N.O. - if they can't afford Brees - they will go for whom?
Pittsburgh - if Big Ben if he retires? - Are they happy with what they have?
I think for KC to let A.Smith go at minimum it will take a 2nd rounder or late first. Key issue there is his deal is one year, and relatively expensive.
Arctic Dawgs
Well-Known Member
an email I got
This morning it's Denver he is being linked to.